Comments on: Can’t blame the user? Blame the user community! http://www.mikealrogers.com/archives/577 Tue, 02 Mar 2010 07:20:09 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: John Dowdell http://www.mikealrogers.com/archives/577/comment-page-1#comment-407 John Dowdell Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:18:05 +0000 http://www.mikealrogers.com/?p=577#comment-407 <p>Mikeal, I agree with you on doing our best to respect each audience member's choices, thanks for that. (I'm a bit distressed at some of the anti-accessibility and "looks best in" arguments coming out from proponents of the AAPL/GOOG HTML5 proposals these days.)</p> <p>Anyway, I appreciate your consistency in showing respect for the audience, thanks!</p> <p>jd/adobe</p> Mikeal, I agree with you on doing our best to respect each audience member’s choices, thanks for that. (I’m a bit distressed at some of the anti-accessibility and “looks best in” arguments coming out from proponents of the AAPL/GOOG HTML5 proposals these days.)

Anyway, I appreciate your consistency in showing respect for the audience, thanks!

jd/adobe

]]> By: mikeal http://www.mikealrogers.com/archives/577/comment-page-1#comment-406 mikeal Thu, 23 Apr 2009 23:12:07 +0000 http://www.mikealrogers.com/?p=577#comment-406 <p>@John Dowdell</p> <p>I don't think there is a "correct" browser. Web developers should support all major browsers and frameworks need to do the same (yes, that includes IE6).</p> <p>We can't deprecate support for IE6 or other browsers until they are no longer in heavy use by our users. Some sites are already close to 1% IE6 so they can start to deprecate.</p> <p>Even after we drop support for a browser, we should present a friendly interface telling them how to get a supported browser.</p> <p>I love my Firefox but I'm not going to build a site that is only viewable by people who like the same :)</p> @John Dowdell

I don’t think there is a “correct” browser. Web developers should support all major browsers and frameworks need to do the same (yes, that includes IE6).

We can’t deprecate support for IE6 or other browsers until they are no longer in heavy use by our users. Some sites are already close to 1% IE6 so they can start to deprecate.

Even after we drop support for a browser, we should present a friendly interface telling them how to get a supported browser.

I love my Firefox but I’m not going to build a site that is only viewable by people who like the same :)

]]> By: John Dowdell http://www.mikealrogers.com/archives/577/comment-page-1#comment-405 John Dowdell Thu, 23 Apr 2009 23:07:29 +0000 http://www.mikealrogers.com/?p=577#comment-405 <p><em>"It’s no longer acceptable for consumer applications to 'blame the user'."</em></p> <p>Well, there's a current habit of blaming consumers who don't use the correct browser, right....?</p> <p>jd/adobe</p> “It’s no longer acceptable for consumer applications to ‘blame the user’.”

Well, there’s a current habit of blaming consumers who don’t use the correct browser, right….?

jd/adobe

]]> By: timfry http://www.mikealrogers.com/archives/577/comment-page-1#comment-404 timfry Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:34:55 +0000 http://www.mikealrogers.com/?p=577#comment-404 <p>Also - what's interesting here is that there are two sets of users on the App Store - developers who are the customer/community Apple needs to serve - and downloaders who both the developers and Apple needs to serve. Makes for an interesting dichotomy, especially in light of Garrett's full post.</p> Also – what’s interesting here is that there are two sets of users on the App Store – developers who are the customer/community Apple needs to serve – and downloaders who both the developers and Apple needs to serve. Makes for an interesting dichotomy, especially in light of Garrett’s full post.

]]> By: mikeal http://www.mikealrogers.com/archives/577/comment-page-1#comment-403 mikeal Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:15:40 +0000 http://www.mikealrogers.com/?p=577#comment-403 <p>Apple's approval delay is rediculous and the only way to change is to continue to bash them in public about it, and in that I liked your post.</p> <p>In particular I like that you point out the worst part of the approval process isn't the initial wait, which seems to get the most attention, but that wait you have to endure trying ship updates and bug fixes. They don't make it easy to fix your product, that's for sure.</p> <p>I share your frustrations with gate keepers i just took offense turning on users, I appreciate your comments and am grateful you appreciated reading my post.</p> <p>The "Don't be an asshole" bit was about that particular rule more than specific to your post, and even if it was, "being an asshole" in this context doesn't <strong>make you</strong> an asshole. I've seen some very nice, kind, thoughtful people be assholes to other contributors in the context of arguing about a particular product feature or bug. No matter how nice of a person you are, if you care a lot about your product you're libel to fly off the handle when you disagree with people.</p> <p>I'll also say that when I started working in open source I violated this rule over and over again without knowing I was until it was too late :) I responded to hostility with hostility and all it did was rile other more passive people up and get the project nowhere.</p> <p>Thanks for commenting Garrett, I really appreciate it.</p> Apple’s approval delay is rediculous and the only way to change is to continue to bash them in public about it, and in that I liked your post.

In particular I like that you point out the worst part of the approval process isn’t the initial wait, which seems to get the most attention, but that wait you have to endure trying ship updates and bug fixes. They don’t make it easy to fix your product, that’s for sure.

I share your frustrations with gate keepers i just took offense turning on users, I appreciate your comments and am grateful you appreciated reading my post.

The “Don’t be an asshole” bit was about that particular rule more than specific to your post, and even if it was, “being an asshole” in this context doesn’t make you an asshole. I’ve seen some very nice, kind, thoughtful people be assholes to other contributors in the context of arguing about a particular product feature or bug. No matter how nice of a person you are, if you care a lot about your product you’re libel to fly off the handle when you disagree with people.

I’ll also say that when I started working in open source I violated this rule over and over again without knowing I was until it was too late :) I responded to hostility with hostility and all it did was rile other more passive people up and get the project nowhere.

Thanks for commenting Garrett, I really appreciate it.

]]> By: Garrett Murray http://www.mikealrogers.com/archives/577/comment-page-1#comment-402 Garrett Murray Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:05:44 +0000 http://www.mikealrogers.com/?p=577#comment-402 <p>I just wanted to clarify that I agree with most of what you're saying, and that my main issue is that Apple is creating a hostile environment. Between long approval delays (which make customers think developers don't care about fixing bugs) and no way for developers to respond to reviews (which makes customers feel like they have no interaction with developers and that developers don't care enough to respond), Apple is creating a group of angry users who feel like their apps aren't getting fixed and the developers don't care. This isn't a good thing at all.</p> <p>I would say, honestly, that I'm not an asshole. At least I try not to be. I got frustrated by a pattern of actions that makes building an selling an app difficult and tiring. I spend a lot of time on my app and when Apple won't get my fixes out to my users quicker than 7 days, I get frustrated. And when a few of my customers refuse to look at the status of support issues or contact me first before writing inflammatory and ridiculous reviews, I get upset. And then I tend to blog.</p> <p>I know I'll never find the perfect user community, but for the most part I have a very good one. I'm not saying EVERYONE on the App Store is a customer I want to avoid, I'm saying the environment is creating a subset of customers like that.</p> <p>Hope that all makes sense. And thanks for your thoughts on the matter, I appreciated reading it.</p> I just wanted to clarify that I agree with most of what you’re saying, and that my main issue is that Apple is creating a hostile environment. Between long approval delays (which make customers think developers don’t care about fixing bugs) and no way for developers to respond to reviews (which makes customers feel like they have no interaction with developers and that developers don’t care enough to respond), Apple is creating a group of angry users who feel like their apps aren’t getting fixed and the developers don’t care. This isn’t a good thing at all.

I would say, honestly, that I’m not an asshole. At least I try not to be. I got frustrated by a pattern of actions that makes building an selling an app difficult and tiring. I spend a lot of time on my app and when Apple won’t get my fixes out to my users quicker than 7 days, I get frustrated. And when a few of my customers refuse to look at the status of support issues or contact me first before writing inflammatory and ridiculous reviews, I get upset. And then I tend to blog.

I know I’ll never find the perfect user community, but for the most part I have a very good one. I’m not saying EVERYONE on the App Store is a customer I want to avoid, I’m saying the environment is creating a subset of customers like that.

Hope that all makes sense. And thanks for your thoughts on the matter, I appreciated reading it.

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